UNITED STATES GRAND JURY SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
UNITED STATES GRAND JURY SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
(Colloquy Precedes) (Witness Enters Room) (Time Noted: one minute eight p.m.)
called as a witness, having been duly sworn by the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and testified as follows:
BY MS. Q. Good afternoon Special Agent
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Could you please state and spell your full name for the record?
A.
Q. Where do you currently work?
The FBI.
A.
Q. What is your title there?
A. Special Agent.
Q. How long have you worked as a special agent for the FBI?
A. For over two years.
Q. Where are you currently assigned?
A. The Violent Crimes Against Children squad.
Q. What are your duties and responsibilities as a special agent on that squad?
A. I work child exploitation and human trafficking matters. We also work international and parental kidnappings.
Q. Have you participated in an investigation of Jeffrey Epstein and his associates?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you spoken with other people, including other law enforcement officers, about this investigation?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others regarding this case?
A. Yes.
Q. Is your testimony today based in part on those conversations with other law enforcement officers and documents that you reviewed?
A. Yes.
MS. So ladies and gentlemen, some of the testimony that you're going to hear today will include hearsay. As you know, that means that the witness will not be testifying solely from her own observations, but that she'll also be reporting what others have told her and what she has read in reports and documents prepared by others. Hearsay evidence is admissible in these grand jury proceedings and you're free to rely on it in determining whether there is probable cause to indict any proposed defendants, if we end up returning to present a proposed indictment.
If, however, you would like to hear the testimony of any other witness, you have the right to request it and we will make reasonable efforts to bring that witness before you. BY MS. Q. So Special Agent I'm placing in front of you what's been marked as Grand Jury Exhibit one. Do you recognize that?
A. Yes. Q. What is that?
A. It's a presentation that was prepared to assist in testifying today.
Q. And did you participate in preparing that exhibit?
A. Yes.
Q. And would it assist you in testifying today?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So we'll make that part of the record for today. Let me begin by just asking you a few questions about Jeffrey Epstein and what you've learned.
Can you tell us, how old is Jeffrey Epstein? He is sixty-six.
A.
Q. Based on open source reporting, what have you learned about Jeffrey Epstein's professional background? A. He's a wealthy individual that has a background as a money manager, background in finance, working in investments.
Q. Is that what's been published and you reported about him?
A. Yes.
Q. During the course of your investigation, have you learned where Epstein maintains residences?
A. Yes.
Q. Where does he have residences?
A. He has a residence here in Manhattan, along with Palm Beach, Virgin Islands and New Mexico. Q. Does he maintain an address in Manhattan located at nine East seventy-first Street?
A. Yes.
Q. If we could turn to slide two. Does that fairly and accurately depict the residence?
A. Yes. Q. Could you please describe that property for the Grand Jury?
A. It's a multi-story residence. It's reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan. It's right near Central Park.
Q. Does Epstein also maintain an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at three hundred fifty-eight El Brillo Way?
A. Yes.
Q. Turning to slide three, does that fairly and accurately depict that residence?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you please describe that property for the Grand Jury?
A. It's a villa in Palm Beach, right on the water, has an in-ground pool along with a guest residence or apartment connected to it.
Q. I want to turn now and talk to you about some of the witnesses you've interviewed during your investigation.
During the course of this investigation have you participated in interviews with an individual named
A. Yes.
Q. For today's purposes I'm just going to refer to her as About how many times have you interviewed
? We've spoken to her approximately five times.
Q. Turning to the next slide. Are these photographs
A. Yes.
Q. Did she tell you approximately how old she was when both of these photographs were taken?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she tell you? A. The photo on the left she was approximately thirteen years old, and the photo on the right she would have been seventeen years old.
Q. What is date of birth?
A. Q. In addition to your participation in interviews with have you also reviewed reports from other law enforcement officers who've interviewed
Yes.
A.
Q. And is your testimony today based on both your review of those reports and also your personal participation in interviews with?
A. Yes. FOREPERSON: Can you speak up a little bit more? Okay, thanks.
BY MS. Q. Okay. So based on your participation in this investigation, have you learned where she was living when she was about fourteen years old?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was she living?
A. She was living in
Q. Was she living with her parents?
A. No, not at that time.
Q. Why not?
A. She had a difficult home life.
Q. Was she going to school?
A. She had started and dropped out.
Q. About when did she drop out of school?
A. The beginning of her freshman year, a few months into her freshman year, approximately.
Q. And at about this time how was she supporting herself financially, in general?
A. She worked different jobs. She worked in catering halls, as a waitress in restaurants and in clubs.
Q. Did there come a time when she learned about Jeffrey Epstein?
A. Yes.
Q. How did that first happen?
A. She met a girl named who told her that she could make money if she massaged this rich guy. Q. And when she heard that from how did she respond? A. She wanted to make money, so she agreed.
Q. What did she agree to do?
A. She agreed to go to his residence and massage him.
Q. Did she recall about how old she was when she first went to his residence?
A. She said she was approximately fourteen. Q. If she was born in nineteen eighty-eight, would she have been fourteen in the year two thousand two?
Q. And just to confirm, the date of birth listed on this slide, is that date of birth?
A. Yes.
Q. So you testified that she ultimately went to his residence. Which residence was that?
A. The one here in Manhattan.
Q. About how many times did she go to Epstein's residence?
A. Multiple times, dozens.
Q. During the time she went to Epstein's residence in Manhattan, did she tell you about what typically would happen when she would go to his house?
A. Yes.
Q. What are some of the things that she told you about what happened there?
A. So the first time she went she went with and she entered the residence; they waited in the office until they were escorted upstairs to the massage room. Once in the massage room Jeffrey Epstein came into the room, he laid down on the table.
Once he was on the table a girl massaged each side. And then would be asked to leave the room,
would stay. From there, once he turned over he wanted his nipples pinched while he masturbated. Things progressed each additional time she went. She would have to massage him while she was in her panties or without underwear on or any clothes on. And then eventually he would touch her. He touched her breasts, her genital area and then used a vibrator on her genital area. Q. Did tell you how much she was paid for each of these sessions?
A. Yes. Q. How was she paid?
A. Three hundred dollars.
Q. Was she paid in cash?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she remember anything in particular about the way he paid her in cash?
A. She was paid in hundred dollar bills.
Q. During your interviews with what was her demeanor like when she would describe to you how Epstein touched her during these sessions?
A. She became more emotional. The more she had to talk about some of the worse things that happened to her she became upset about it.
Q. You were explaining earlier that said she was approximately fourteen when this began. Did she tell you whether she ever had any conversations with Epstein about her age?
Q. What did she tell you?
A. She said that she told him she was fourteen.
Q. Have you asked what Epstein's house was like?
A. Yes.
Q. How did she describe it to you?
A. She gave a lot of detail about the house. She talked about the office having a round desk in it, she talked about the massage room had the massage table, it had lotions, it had moisturizers. On the walls there were sketches or paintings of naked females on them. And she also talked about a library in his residence that looked like it was something from out of Beauty and the Beast. Q. Is that how she described it to you?
A. Yes.
Q. So we've been talking about what you've learned during interviews with Just to take a step back, how did you first establish contact with her?
A. My partner and I located her at her residence.
Q. What did she say to you when you first approached her?
A. She was very nervous when we first talked to her. And she told us that she was sixteen, she went and massaged Epstein and he masturbated and he didn't touch her.
Q. And again, what was her demeanor like when she said this to you? A. She was very nervous.
She was just very anxious while we .
were speaking with her.
Q. Were you able to conduct a full interview of her at that time?
A. No. Q. At a later point were you able to conduct full and thorough interviews with her?
A. Yes.
Q. And once you finally were able to interview her did you ask her why she said that when you first approached her?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she explain to you?
A. She told us that she didn't even really remember what she had told us initially because she was so nervous, she was so worried. She was really concerned that if she talked to us she was going to go to jail, so she was really worried about being in trouble.
Q. Did there come a point in time when Epstein asked to bring other girls to him?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened?
A. She did. She reached out to other girls that she knew to see their interest.
Q. I want to ask you a little bit about what told you about her role in bringing other girls to Epstein. Let me first just ask, in general, how would she find new girls?
A. She would meet them through friends of friends. She met them in clubs, different social settings. Q. In general, what kinds of things would she tell them about what to expect?
A. She told them that they would have to give a massage either with their underwear on or nude; that he would want his nipples touched and that he would masturbate. Q. Would she tell them anything about payment?
A. Yes.
Q. What would she tell them?
A. She'd tell them that they would get three hundred dollars for massaging him.
Q. Did she have a sense, in general, of the ages of the ages of the girls that she brought to Epstein?
A. She estimated around approximately thirteen, fourteen-year olds to seventeen-year olds. They were mostly underage girls that she brought. She did bring a couple that were eighteen. Q. Approximately how long did she participate in bringing girls to Epstein?
A. Approximately three years of the three years that she went. Q. So approximately how old was she when this stopped?
Q. And during this time period, around the time when this photograph was taken when they were approximately sixteen, is that when they were working recruiting girls for Epstein? Yes.
A. Q. In general, when would she find a girl, how would she go about bringing the girl to Epstein?
A. She would call who she believed was his -- or she assumed was his assistant, a woman named .
Q. Why would she call?
A. She would call and say, I have a girl who can work, and they would schedule that appointment.
Q. In conversations with is that how they refer to these massage sessions, as "work"?
A. Yes.
Q. Once the session was scheduled, would she go with the girl to the house?
A. Yes.
Q. What would she do, in general, once she brought the girl to the house?
A. So the first time she would take a girl they would go to the residence, they'd wait in the office until they could be escorted upstairs. The first time she would go with a girl, she would go up with her so the girl felt comfortable and kind of knew what to do. Additional visits after that she would wait downstairs while the girl did the massage upstairs.
Q. Did Epstein ever give feedback to about the girls that she was bringing?
A. Yes.
Q. Would he ever tell her that he particularly liked or didn't like a specific girl?
A. Yes.
Q. And would he ever tell her to bring a specific girl back or to not bring her back for other sessions?
A. Yes.
Q. Over time did she notice any patterns in the girls that Epstein seemed to like?
A. She did.
Q. What did she notice?
A. That he liked young, petite, natural girls.
Q. What did she mean by "natural girls"?
A. That girls that were under eighteen, weren't completely developed.
Q. Did she recall any particular expressions that Epstein would use to express his preferences when he was giving her feedback about girls that she had brought?
A. I'm sorry. Say that again.
Q. In your conversations with did she recall any particular expressions or phrases that Epstein would use when he was explaining what girls he did or didn't like?
A. Yeah. He would tell her, you know what I like.
If she brought someone he didn't like he'd be like, come on, you know, you know what I like.
Q. What was her understanding of what that meant?
A. She understood that to mean girls who were under eighteen.
Q. Did she tell you how much Epstein paid her for recruiting other girls?
A. Yes.
Q. And how much did he pay her?
A. Three hundred dollars.
Q. And was that for each new girl or for every session with the new girl when she brought her in?
A. That was for each new girl and every session that she went with whatever girl.
Q. We talked a little bit about phone calls between and but I want to circle back and just talk about that in a little bit more detail.
Can you explain for the Grand Jury, in general,
how would she schedule these sessions?
A. She would schedule the sessions through would either contact her on her phone or she would reach out to and say she could work.
Q. And just to be clear, did ever call
A. Yes.
Q. In sum and substance, what are some of the kinds of things that she would discuss on the phone with ? A. When she'd be available to massage him. They'd talk about what girls. would ask her, do you have a new girl, things along those lines.
Q. Approximately how old was when she stopped going to Epstein's house?
A. Around seventeen.
Q. Did she explain to you why she stopped going?
A. She said that the older she got she was having a more difficult time finding younger girls that he preferred. And at that time she also was working at a café.
Q. All right. So I want to switch gears and talk about another witness that you've interviewed. Before I do, I just want to be clear. We've been talking about some of the things that has explained to you in your interviews.
When you've been describing what she's told you, were those the exact words that she used in every interview or just the sum and substance of what she's relayed to you? A. Sum and substance. Q. During the course of this investigation have you participated in interviews with an individual named ?
A. Yes.
So for today's purposes I'm just going to refer to
Q.
her as Can you tell us, how many times have you interviewed ?
A. Twice. Q. Have you also reviewed reports from previous law enforcement interviews with ?
A. Yes. Q. Is your testimony today based both on your review of those reports and also your personal participation and interviews with ?
A. Yes. Q. Okay. If we could turn to the next slide, slide
Six. Is this a photograph of ?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how old was when this photograph was taken, if you know?
A. Approximately nineteen. Q. What is's date of birth?
A.
Q. Based on your participation and interviews with have you learned where she was living when she was about fourteen or fifteen?
A. Yes. Q. Where was she living? A. She was living with a friend of her,
Q. Was that in the West Palm Beach area in Florida?
A. Yes.
Q. You mentioned that she was living with a friend. To be clear, was she living with her parents during that time?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. She had a difficult home life.
Q. Was she in school at that time?
A. She had started high school and dropped out.
Q. Did there come a time when she learned about Jeffrey Epstein?
A. Yes. Q. How did she learn about Epstein? A. She and were at a party together and another girl their age had approached them, telling them that they could make two hundred dollars to massage a rich guy in West Palm Beach. Q. How did she respond when she heard that?
A. She agreed to do it. Q. Did she end up going to Epstein's residence in Palm Beach, Florida?
A. Yes.
Q. About how many times did she go to the residence?
A. Approximately sixty times.
A. Yes.
Q. Who did she go there with?
A. She went with and other friends throughout the additional times.
Q. Was approximately the same age as
A. Yes.
Q. Did recall approximately how old she was when she first went to Epstein's house?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she remember the exact age?
A. No.
Q. What did she tell you about what she was able to remember about how old she was?
A. She said she recalled it was the summer before her ninth grade year, but that she could have been fourteen, fifteen. She was unsure.
Q. In interviews previously, had she mentioned that it's possible she might have been sixteen?
A. Yes.
Q. But was her most recent memory that she met him at approximately fourteen or fifteen, but that she wasn't sure?
A. Yes.
Q. So if was born in nineteen eighty-seven, would she have been fourteen or fifteen in about the year two thousand two?
A. Yes.
went to Epstein's residence in Palm Beach, did she explain to you what would typically happen when she went to Epstein's house?
Q. All right. During the times that
A. Yes.
Q. What did she describe to you about, in general, the kinds of things that would happen when she would go to his house?
A. So she explained that she would go to the residence, she'd be escorted upstairs. Sometimes it was with a friend. Each girl would massage a side of Epstein, one girl would leave. Things that happen in the room described that Epstein would want his nipples touched, he would masturbate and he would touch her. She said that usually the massages were done when she was only in her underwear. Q. Has she ever described Epstein using a vibrator or a sex toy?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she describe? A. She said that he used a vibrator on her genital area. Q. During these massages would Epstein ever instruct her to use lotions?
A. Yes.
A. She did.
Q. I want to ask you a little bit about her role in recruiting other girls to bring to Epstein. Can you explain for the Grand Jury, in general, how would she find new girls to bring to Epstein?
A. She found them at parties or in the neighborhood she was living at the time with. She described it as a trailer park environment that she brought girls from. But some were school, when she was still there, and then just parties.
Q. In general, what kinds of things would she tell the girls about what to expect? A. Initially she told them that they were just going to give a massage and get paid.
Q. And did she have a sense, in general, about the ranges of age of girls that she would bring to the house over time?
A. Under eighteen. She did say she brought a couple that were over eighteen and he wasn't happy about it. Q. I'm going to ask you a little bit more about that in a second. But just so we're clear, was her sense, in general, that of the girls she brought to the residence over time that most of them she thought were under eighteen?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how many girls did she estimate that she had brought over the years, approximately?
A. Dozens.
Q. In general, what would happen when she would bring the girl to Epstein?
A. She would go with the girl. They'd be escorted upstairs. The first time she went with a girl they would massage him together. Once Epstein flipped over to when he was laying on his back he would tell to leave and the other girl would stay and massage while went downstairs.
Q. Did Epstein ever give feedback on the girls that she had brought?
A. Yes. Q. Would he ever tell her whether he liked or didn't like a specific girl?
A. Yes.
Q. Would he ever ask her to bring a certain girl back or to not bring another girl back?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she notice over time any patterns in the girls that Epstein seemed to like?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she notice? A. That he liked young, young girls, young petite girls.
Q. And did she notice whether he appeared to have any preferences in the race of the girls that she was bringing? A. Yes.
Q. What did she tell you?
A. He did not like dark skinned or black girls.
Q. Did she recall him using any particular expressions when he would convey his preferences to her?
A. Yes.
Q. What would he say?
A. He told her, you know what I like.
Q. What was her understanding of what that meant?
A. She understood that to mean that he liked under eighteen. Q. When first went to Epstein's house, did she tell Epstein that she was older than she really was?
A. Yes. Q. Why did she tell him she was older than she really was?
A. One of the girls told her to say that she was older than she was.
Q. When she started recruiting girls, did she tell them to say that they were older?
A. Yes. Q. Did there come a point in time when she stopped giving girls that instruction?
Q. Why did she stop doing that?
A. She said because it didn't matter. He didn't care how old they were as long as they weren't over eighteen. Q. Why did she think he didn't care about whether the girls were over eighteen or not?
A. Because she said he had preferred under eighteen and that's what he wanted her to bring.
Q. Why did she think that that was what he preferred?
A. Because that's what he told her, you know what I like. And she understood that to mean under eighteen. Q. Did tell you how much Epstein paid her for recruiting other girls? A. Yes.
Q. What did she tell you?
A. Two hundred dollars.
Q. Was that for each new girl or for every time she brought in?
A. Every time she brought the girl. Q. And did explain to you how she would schedule these sessions with Epstein?
A. Yes.
Q. How did that work? A. So she would be contacted by or she would call to schedule appointments.
Q. What was her understanding of who was?
A. She understood her to be his assistant.
Q. In general, in sum and substance, what would they discuss on those phone calls?
A. She would tell what the girls looked like, she would tell them when they would be available. She'd also tell them when they wouldn't be available, based on their school or after curricular activities -- extra curricular.
Q. During these calls how would refer to the sessions that they were scheduling?
A. As work.
Q. Can you give us an example of how that would be used in a sentence?
A. That she would just say: Are you available to work, or, do you have a girl that's available to work. Q. During these phone calls about scheduling, did ever say where she was calling from?
A. Yes. Q. What did remember about that?
A. recalled saying that she was calling from New York and they'd be coming down to West Palm Beach. Q. Okay. Switching gears. Have you become aware that in a separate investigation of Jeffrey Epstein, a witness said in about two thousand five that she'd recruited minor victims for Epstein, but that that she'd also brought some girls who were over eighteen and that Epstein told her, quote, "the younger the better." And that she also said, quote, "he likes the girls that are between the ages of eighteen and twenty"?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Switching topics. Have you become aware that in two thousand five police officers from the Palm Beach Police Department executed a search warrant at Epstein's house at the El Brillo Way address in Palm Beach?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you reviewed some of the materials that were seized during the search? A. Yes.
Q. Did they find a massage table and sex toys?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they find any phone messages?
A. Yes.
Q. Turning to slide seven. Could you please explain for the Grand Jury what we're looking at here? A. This is a room in his Palm Beach residence. Down here on the close right corner you're going to see message pads. Q.
So were those note pads for taking phone messages?
Q. And in the message pads was there just one message per page or were there four, laid out two on top and two on the bottom?
A. There were four, two on top and two on the bottom.
Q. The message pad that we're looking at in this photograph, was that the only set of messages that were recovered from the residence?
A. No.
Q. All right. So let's talk a little bit about some of the phone messages that were found in the house. Let's turn to slide eight.
Could you walk us through what we're looking at here?
A. So this message is dated September thirtieth, two thousand four. Her name is on it and in the message it says: She has a female for Mr. J E.
Q. So given the date on this message, if this message had been left by , given her date of birth, would she have been about sixteen-years old when this message was left?
A. Yes. Q. Let's turn to slide nine. What are we looking at here?
A. This is a message that's dated November eighth, two thousand four.
is on the message and in the message it says: I
have a female for him.
Q. Do you recognize this particular phone number?
A. Yes.
Q. Based on your review of law enforcement reports,
previously identified this as her phone has number?
A. Yes.
Q. Based on the date on this particular phone message and her date of birth, would she have been about seventeen when this message was left?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's turn to slide ten. So we've been looking at some of the excerpts of the phone message. Is this a full page of phone messages?
A. Yes.
Q. And do they all have dates on them?
A. No.
Q. Which one has a date on it?
A. Upper left-hand side.
Q. And is that November eleventh, two thousand four?
A. Yes.
Q. So can you tell when these messages were approximately left?
A. Approximately, yes.
Q. But beyond the fact that one of them is dated, you're not sure?
A. Correct. Q. Okay. Can you walk us through what we see here on this message pad?
A. So bottom right is listed. On the top right, (ph) is listed, and it states: Wondering if you want her to work tomorrow and what time.
Q. So the message on the bottom marked doesn't have a date on it. But if these messages were left in approximately November of two thousand four, based on - S date of birth, would she have been about seventeen when this message was left?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Turning to slide eleven. What do we see here?
A. So this message was dated January thirteenth, two thousand five.
is listed on the message, along with her phone number and it just states: Please call her. Q. Based on your review of law enforcement reports,
has previously identified this phone number as being one of her phone numbers during that time period?
A. Yes.
Q. Based on the date on this message and
's date of birth, would have been about seventeen-years old when this message was left?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's turn to slide twelve. Can you tell us what we're looking at here?
A. This message is dated January twenty-ninth, two thousand five.
's name is on this message along with her phone number, and in the message it says: I have a female for him.
Q. Based on the date of this message and
's date of birth, would she have been about seventeen when this message was left?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's turn to slide thirteen. This message is a bit more faint, so if you could just walk the Grand Jury through this message.
A. So this message has listed on it along with her phone number. And in the message it says: She has a female friend for you, please call back as soon as possible.
Q. Is there a date on this message?
A. No.
Q. So earlier you were describing that in interviews with she explained that she was living with a friend named at the time she first encountered
Epstein, is that right?
Q. And did she explain whether she ever went to Epstein's house with ?
A. She did.
Q. And did you find in your review of the phone messages in Epstein's house, any messages left by a person named ?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's talk about a few of those messages. If you could turn to slide fourteen, please. What do we see here?
A. This is a message in March of two thousand five. It lists on it. And in the message: She will be here at four p.m. but she needs talk to you before that. Please call her back.
Q. Turning to slide fifteen. What do we see here?
A. This is a message dated September eighth of two thousand five.
is listed on it along with her new phone number,
Q. Now, do you know one way or the other whether this specific message was left by ?
A. No. Q. Are you familiar with 's date of birth? A. Yes.
Q. And if this message had been left by based on the date of the message and 's date of birth, would she have been about seventeen? A. Yes.
Q. Turning to slide sixteen. What do we see here?
A. This message is dated March eighteenth of two thousand five. is listed on it along with a phone number and the message says: Please call her.
Q. Again, same as before, do you know one way or the other whether this specific message was left by
A. No.
Q. But based on the date on this message and
's date of birth, if it had been left by would she have been about sixteen on that date?
A. Yes.
Q. Turning to slide seventeen. Does this appear to be another message left by someone named?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the text of the message?
A. She can be tomorrow here from two P.M. to whenever.
Q. What's the date on the message?
A. Oh, sorry. March eighteenth two thousand five. Q. Same as before, do you know one way or the other whether this was left?
A. No.
Q. Based on her date of birth and the date of this message, if she had left this message would she have been about sixteen?
A. Yes.
Q. And finally, turning to slide eighteen. This is a bit faint so if you could walk the Grand Jury through it? A. So this message has 's name on it along with the phone number, and in the message it says: Has girl for tonight.
Q. Is there a date on this message?
A. No.
Q. In your review of these phone messages, did you find any other phone messages that appeared to fit this pattern of scheduling with girls?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Let's talk about just a few of those. Let's turn to slide nineteen. What do we see here?
A. This message is September of two thousand five. It has a woman named on it. In the message it says: Cancel
- she would like to speak to you, I believe, about college. Along with a phone number.
Should I schedule anyone else? Q. And so the name we'll talk about that a little bit in a few minutes. But just for present purposes,
have you become aware during this investigation that during this time period Jeffrey Epstein had an assistant named?
Yes.
A.
Q. Turning to slide twenty. What does this message say? A. This is a message that has on it, and in the message it says: Wants to work if you are in. Q. Turning to slide twenty-one. What does this message say? A. This message has on it and the message will come at five.
states: Is it okay if
Q. And finally, turning to slide twenty-two. What does this message say?
A. This message has and on it. In the message it states: They are available all weekend and maybe too. And signed,
.
during this investigation?
Q. Have you interviewed a person named?
A. Yes. Q. Do you know whether or not that's the same listed on this message?
A. No.
Q. In a minute I want to ask you about your interviews of . But before I do that I just want to ask you a few more questions about
Did there come a point in time, in approximately two thousand seven, when learned that Epstein was being investigated by State authorities for his conduct with minors?
A. Yes.
Q. How did she learn that?
A. She had seen it, that there was an investigation into him. And then she had reached out to and told her that if she didn't talk she'd be taken care of.
Q. And were those the exact words used or just the sum and substance of that conversation?
A. Sum and substance.
Q. And do you remember, as we sit here today, whether she said that she called or whether called her?
A. I don't recall the specifics, but there was a
Q. And finally, when you met with what was telephone communication.
her demeanor like when she discussed her role in recruiting minors for Jeffrey Epstein?
A. I'm sorry. Can you say it again?
Q. When you would talk with about her role in recruiting minors for Jeffrey Epstein, what was her demeanor like?
A. She became very emotional when she talked about that, very upset about her role in bringing other girls to him.
Q. Finally I want to talk to you about one last witness that you've interviewed. During the course of this investigation, have you participated in interviews with an individual named?
A. Yes.
Q. For today's purposes I'm just going to refer to her as Can you tell us, how many times have you interviewed?
A. Twice. Q. Have you also reviewed reports from previous law enforcement interviews with?
A. Yes.
Q. Is your testimony today based on both your review of those reports and also your own interviews with?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's turn to slide twenty-three. Are these photographs of
A. Yes.
Q. Did she tell you about how old she was when these photographs were taken? A. She said that she was approximately sixteen or seventeen years old when these photos were taken. Q. What is her date of birth?
A. Q. And have you learned where she was living when she was about seventeen-years old?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was she living?
A. In West Palm Beach area.
Q. Was she in school at the time?
A. Yes.
learned about Jeffrey Epstein?
Q. Did there come a point in time when
A. Yes.
Q. How did that happen?
A. One of her friends told her about a girl -- I'm sorry. Someone told her about being able to make money to massage a rich guy in West Palm Beach, and she agreed to do that.
Q. Did she ultimately end up going to Epstein's residence in Palm Beach, Florida?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how many times?
A. Multiple times.
Q. Approximately how old was she when she first went to Epstein's house?
A. Approximately sixteen or seventeen years old.
Q. During the times that she went there, did she explain to you what would typically happen when she went to Epstein's house?
A. Yes.
Q. What are some of the things that she has described to you that occurred while she was at the residence?
A. She talked about having to massage him without her clothes on, in just her panties or nude. She talked about having to play with his nipples while he masturbated and that he touched her breasts, her genital area and used a vibrator on her genital area.
Q. Generally speaking, where would this occur?
A. In the massage room at the West Palm Beach residence.
Q. During these massages, did Epstein ever instruct her to use lotions?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of lotions?
A. Bath and Body Works. Q. What has she told you about any payment she received for these sessions?
A. She said she received two hundred dollars.
Q. How was she paid?
A. Hundred dollar bills.
Q. Who would pay her?
A. Epstein or
Q. We'll talk a little bit more about in a moment. But let me ask for now, what, if anything, did she say to you about a conversation she had with Epstein about her age?
A. She said that she told him she was under eighteen and he made comments to her that if she was eighteen he could help her with her modeling career or when she became eighteen he could help her. He told her that if she was eighteen he would've taken her to a party.
Q. When you met with what was her demeanor like when she discussed what happened with Epstein during these sessions?
A. She became upset when she went into further detail about what occurred.
Q. When you say she was "upset," can you just explain for us a little bit what it was like talking to her about those experiences?
A. It was emotional. I mean, there were tears, there were some tears. Q. Were there some details she wasn't as comfortable talking about?
A. Yes. Q. Has told you that she's gone through psychological treatment, in part to cope with her experiences with Epstein?
Q. Has she ever been hospitalized relating to those issues?
A. Yes.
Q. What was she hospitalized for?
A. Self harm, cutting herself.
Q. I want to switch gears and talk about a few records relating to If we could turn to slide twenty-four. What's depicted on this slide?
A. So this is a calendar page. This was taken from her senior year school planner. And on this page you can see she wrote in, Jeffrey, up here on the ninth, and then Jeffrey's listed on the twenty-ninth.
Q. Just to give some context. Are these the pages from October two thousand four from her senior year school planner?
A. Yes.
Q. And are there listed some of her activities and events throughout that month?
A. Yes.
Q. In October two thousand four, would have been seventeen?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's talk just a little bit about the two areas that you flagged in the circles. So looking at the top right red circle that's underneath and to the right of the entry that says, new school. Is Jeffrey written on that
Saturday, the ninth?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the bottom, the circle there that's just under the entry for homecoming game. Is there an entry for: Jeffrey comes back?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you talked with about what she would typically do with the money that she was paid --
A. Yes.
Q. when she went to go to Epstein's house?
A. Yes.
Q. Just as a reminder, can you explain for us what she's told you about how she was paid?
A. She said she was paid in hundred dollar bills.
Q. And who would pay her?
A. Epstein or.
Q. What would she do with that money?
A. She'd deposit it in her bank, bank account.
Q. Was her memory that she generally did that or that she did that absolutely every time that she went there?
A. That she generally did it. Q. And has she provided you with copies of records from her bank account during that time period?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Turning to the next slide. Sorry.
Before we move on to slide twenty-five. Here on slide twenty-four. The red circles that are here, are those that you've added to aid the Grand Jury in spotting those two locations or did circle those in her planner?
A. No, those were added.
Q. So turning to slide twenty-five. You've testified that provided you with some of her bank records. What are we looking at on this slide?
A. So this is an October two thousand four deposit and in it she deposited two hundred dollar bills and a twenty. Q. If this deposit happened on October twelfth, two thousand four,
would have been seventeen?
A. Yes.
Q. Turning to slide twenty-six. Is this another deposit slip and this one on November ninth, two thousand four?
A. Yes. Q. Is this another deposit slip that provided you?
A. Yes. Q. What, if anything, did you notice about this deposit slip?
A. It's two -- she deposited two hundred dollars. Q. Does the deposit slip note what kind of bills she deposited?
A. Hundreds.
Q. Based on the date of this deposit, would have been seventeen when this happened?
A. Yes.
Q. Did explain to you, in general, how these sessions with Epstein were scheduled?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she explain to you about how that worked?
A. That she spoke on the phone with who would schedule her to work.
Q. What was her understanding of who
A. His assistant.
Q. In general, what kinds of things would they discuss on the phone call?
A. They'd talk about when she was available, or would tell her, you know, that she was coming down to - that they were coming down to West Palm Beach. Q. And did ever tell her where she was calling from?
A. Yes.
Q. What did remember about that?
A. She recalled saying she was calling from New York. Q. And when she remembered saying she was calling from New York, what was the context in which would explain, in general, in sum and substance why she was calling from New York? A. She was telling that they would be arriving in West Palm Beach on a certain date and to ask her when she's available.
Q. In these phone conversations with , what kind of terminology did typically use to refer to these sessions?
A. She referred to it as "work." Q. Did remember having scheduling calls with anyone except for ?
A. Yes. Q. Did she remember getting calls from anyone else?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she remember?
A. She remembered getting calls from
Q. What was her understanding of who was?
A. That she was another assistant of his.
Q. And in sum and substance, what would she talk about on the phone with ?
A. Same things that she talked with about, scheduling. Q. Does still have the cell phone she had as a teenager during this time period? A. Yes.
Q. And what kind of phone is it?
A. It's a flip-phone.
Q. Has she shown that phone to you when you've met with her? A. Yes. Q. Is there a contact stored in that phone for a
? A. Yes.
Q. And a phone number stored for that contact?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. I'm going to talk to you a little bit about that specific phone number.
Turning to the next slide, to slide twenty-seven. What's on this slide? A. So this shows who was financially responsible for this phone number, which is Jeffrey Epstein, and it shows the user as associated with this phone number.
Q. Are these subscriber records for the phone number,
A. Yes. Q. Is that the phone number that's stored in the flip phone that you just described that has?
A. Yes. Q. So in these subscriber records, are these records maintained by the phone company for that phone number?
Q. In the top two sections, do those sections explain who's responsible for the account in terms of billing and paying for the account?
A. Yes. Q. And is Jeffrey Epstein and a Manhattan address listed in both places?
A. Yes.
Q. At the bottom section, under user information, is there information about the particular phone number and the user of that phone number?
A. Yes. Q. So, is the user listed for the phone number listed as ?
A. Yes.
Q. And is it listed at the Manhattan address?
A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed phone records for s phone number during the time period we've been talking about?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm going to talk to you a little bit about some of those records. If you could turn to slide twenty-eight.
Is this an excerpt from the phone records for s cell phone?
A. Yes.
Q. On this slide there's an arrow next to the excerpt and a highlighted portion. Could you just walk the Grand Jury through that particular line on the record? A. That was a call that was made on January third at one o'clock six p.m. It's - s number.
Q. So that's a record of those two phones talking to each other on that date and time?
Yes.
A. Q. So if this call was between those two phones, on January third, two thousand four, I want to talk about the very next day, January fourth, two thousand five. If you could turn to slide twenty-nine. So the day after that phone call we've just discussed, has provided you with a deposit slip for January fourth, two thousand five? A. Yes. Q. And did she deposit cash that day?
A. Yes.
Q. About how much?
A. She deposited about one hundred fifty, one one-hundred dollar bill, two twenties and a ten.
Q. So just so we're clear on the timeline. On January and 's phone numbers were third, two thousand five,
talking to each other and the very next day deposited cash?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Turning to slide thirty. Is this an excerpt from the phone records for 's cell phone?
A. Yes.
Q. Focusing on about halfway down, the highlighted line, are those records of calls on September sixteenth, two thousand four? A. Yes.
Q. And what does this record reflect?
A. That a call was made at around two o'clock eight p.m. on September sixteenth between and
Q. So sticking with this same day, September sixteenth, two thousand four, let me ask: Have you reviewed flight records from Jeffrey Epstein's private jet? A. Yes. Q. And do those records log flights that he took on his private jet?
A. Yes. Q. And do those records also include flight manifests that show what individuals were on that flight?
A. Yes. Q. So turning to slide thirty-one. What is the record excerpted here?
A. So this shows that there was a departure on September sixteenth from JFK to West Palm Beach and it lists all the individuals that were on that flight. Q. And just to take a step back for context. Can you just explain for the Grand Jury what the different fields are in this record, what kind of a log this is?
A. So this is a flight log. It shows the dates that he's flown out, his aircraft has flown out, and shows from location and to the arrival destination.
Q. Turning to the field on the far left and going down to the part where we've put an arrow, does that reflect a flight on September sixteenth, two thousand four?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize the airport codes to the right of that that reflect the point of departure and arrival?
A. Yes.
Q. So what is this particular flight?
A. So this is JFK in New York. PBI is West Palm Beach. Q. In addition to this log of different flights, have you also looked at the particular flight manifest for the September sixteenth, two thousand four flight we've been talking about? A. Yes. Q. Turning to page thirty-two. Is this the passenger manifest we've been talking about?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this the passenger manifest for the September sixteenth, two thousand four flight we've just talked about? A. About halfway down to the area where there's a circle, is that a circle that we've added for this presentation? A. Yes. Q. Is listed as a passenger on a flight on September sixteenth, two thousand four?
A. Yes. Q. What are the listed times and departure and arrival locations for this flight? A. So they departed at eight oh five P.M. and arrived in West Palm at ten sixteen P.M. Q. Just so we have the timeline straight. If we could back to slide thirty. I believe you testified earlier that the phone call highlighted here is on September sixteenth, two thousand four at two oh clock, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So if this call occurred at two oh clock on that day, would that have been about six hours before that flight took off from JFK?
A. Yes. Q. And in your conversations with , did she ever tell you that Epstein asked her to bring girls for him?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she tell you about that?
A. She said that he asked her if she had friends to bring.
Q. And how did she respond?
A. She took two girls.
Q. When you say "she took two girls," did she bring girls to Epstein's house?
A. Yes. Q. Were those girls minors?
A. Yes.
Q. If you could give me just one moment.
Special Agent have you told the Grand Jury everything that you know about this case or have you just answered the questions that I've asked? A. I've answered the questions you've asked.
When you testified about the documents that you
Q.
reviewed or the conversations that you had with others, were you testifying to the exact words used or just the substance of the documents or those conversations?
A. Just to the substance.
Q. And are you willing to return to the Grand Jury if the Grand Jury has any further questions for you?
A. Yes.
M S. Okay. With the Foreperson's permission I'd ask that the witness be excused.
FOREPERSON. You're excused.
(Witness Excused) (Time Noted: two eleven P.M.)
(Colloquy Follows)
I hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcription, to the best of my skill and ability, from my electronic notes of this proceeding.
June nineteenth, two thousand nineteen
Date
Acting Grand Jury Reporter Free State Reporting, Inc.